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Every Penny CountsAn Interview with PennywiseSpecial to XROXX by Ryan BrayXROXX: We're here in Milwaukee at The Rave with Fletcher Dragge from Pennywise. Thanks for your time. First off, it seems now-a-days music is very commercialized; money and fame are two of the big motivators behind people doing their work and people creating music. With Pennywise, it's always been different. It's always been more about principle and things of that nature. So, as a band, what is it about music that hits you; what is it you love about music? FLETCHER: I think for all of us in the early days, you either liked punk or you didn't like it. It wasn't like it was trendy to be a punk rocker, so you just did that. It was either bred into you or it wasn't. For me when I first heard punk rock I knew that was for me, I knew that was the kind of music I was going to be into for the rest of my life. And I think back in those days you had to be passionate to be into punk rock because it was so dangerous. Everybody hated you. You were an outcast; no one in your school liked you. Your teachers didn't like you, cops didn't like you. It was a big trade off, your whole life was going to be dedicated to be in this type of scene and of course you ended up starting a band. If you were into it enough to where you really want to be a part of it when you know you're a kid you start a band. So we started playing and that went on for years. Jimmy was in different punk bands I was in punk bands; Jason our bass player was in punk bands. The scene kind of died away and then we sort of restarted. For us, we used to get a lot of shit from our friends saying, "why are you doing this? C'mon you should sound more like this band or this band you're never gonna go anywhere." We were like we don't care we're doing what we like; we love this kind of music. We like being able to express ourselves. We didn't have a record deal; we put out our first single by ourselves and played for a couple years. Eventually got on Epitaph and started doing better and better. We were all still working at our day jobs, we never dreamed we'd be going to Europe, Japan, or wherever and making a living doing this. It's a really great thing but like you said a lot of bands are motivated by getting paid, getting laid, and being famous. And it's really sad because that's really cheap and obscene and the integrity and strength of the scene has just been ruined. I don't even know if I would call it a punk rock scene anymore, because punk rock was about being different, being rebellious, being yourself and going against the grain. Everyone now that's claming to be punk rock is signing to major labels. C'mon! There were no major labels signing Black Flag or the Descendants back in the day. You had to strive because you're an artist and you had to put out your own shit and do everything yourself. Now it's like I wanna get on a major label, I wanna get a big advance, I wanna do this. It's kind of sad, but people are into different things for different reasons. I can't really knock people for doing what they want to do as long as it makes them happy. But we've always been into the music and message first and just having a good time. I dunno that's a long answer for ya. XROXX: That being said, the term 'sell-out' is tossed around in the punk community. It's kind of like a two way street. You've got bands like A New Found Glory, Goldfinger, Rancid, bands of that nature. Then you've got other bands such as NOFX and Bouncing Souls who are adamantly opposed to it and won't even touch it. Where does Pennywise stand in terms of selling-out as far as on radio and MTV? FLETCHER: I think the term 'sell-out' is used really loosely by a lot of different people. Fourteen-year-old kids XROXX: Excellent, Pennywise has been a staple in the punk scene for years now. You have influenced so many bands that have followed after your style including Sum 41 and Blink 182, among others. Who have stated in past interviews that, 'we owe a lot to bands like Pennywise for helping us get our foot in the door,' or something to that effect? How does it make you feel to know that you played such an integral part with the success of such bands? FLETCHER: It's weird because whenever we took The Offspring out opening on tour with us they later sold millions of records. We did stuff with Rancid and they wound up becoming bigger than us. We took Blink out and they're bigger than us. It's kind of funny and it's great to know we influence people. I don't really think about it, but I was influenced by the earlier stuff like Black Flag and Minor Threat, growing up then. I guess to the next generation we were the new school punk movement and everything beyond us is even newer school. It's kind of weird, I guess. It's cool that we've had an influence on people and I never really think about it. But there are a lot of cool bands that have gone out and done good things. The guys in Sum 41 are super nice guys and down to earth. Those guys are having total fun with it and having a good time. We all know Blink is doing really well. You know it's good, I guess, someone will remember us. Maybe they'll f*cking send me a check, just kidding. XROXX: Your new record, Land of the Free, is doing really well. Lyrically it's maybe more aggressive and a little bit more intense than some of your other albums. Was that a goal of the band, to be a little more like that, or was it just a natural progression? FLETCHER: I think with every Pennywise album we write about how we're feeling at the time. We won't set out to write our album in any certain direction, it just comes naturally from what we're feeling. We might have a friend on drugs, we might have this happen, something might be happening in society and we write songs about it. This album we had so much stuff that was going on politically, police department corruption, school shootings, environmental issues, and all these crazy things. The album showed we were actually taking a direction. Land of the Free was one of the first songs written. It was like, is this the land of the free? Do we live in the land of the free? It's what everyone thinks America to be, but how free are we in a society where the NRA is lining the pockets of politicians to keep guns legal and big businesses lining their pockets so they can continue to pollute XROXX: Excellent, Pennywise has been a staple in the punk scene for years now. You have influenced so many bands that have followed after your style including Sum 41 and Blink 182, among others. Who have stated in past interviews that, 'we owe a lot to bands like Pennywise for helping us get our foot in the door,' or something to that effect? How does it make you feel to know that you played such an integral part with the success of such bands? FLETCHER: It's weird because whenever we took The Offspring out opening on tour with us they later sold millions of records. We did stuff with Rancid and they wound up becoming bigger than us. We took Blink out and they're bigger than us. It's kind of funny and it's great to know we influence people. I don't really think about it, but I was influenced by the earlier stuff like Black Flag and Minor Threat, growing up then. I guess to the next generation we were the new school punk movement and everything beyond us is even newer school. It's kind of weird, I guess. It's cool that we've had an influence on people and I never really think about it. But there are a lot of cool bands that have gone out and done good things. The guys in Sum 41 are super nice guys and down to earth. Those guys are having total fun with it and having a good time. We all know Blink is doing really well. You know it's good, I guess, someone will remember us. Maybe they'll f*cking send me a check, just kidding. XROXX: Your new record, Land of the Free, is doing really well. Lyrically it's maybe more aggressive and a little bit more intense than some of your other albums. Was that a goal of the band, to be a little more like that, or was it just a natural progression? FLETCHER: I think with every Pennywise album we write about how we're feeling at the time. We won't set out to write our album in any certain direction, it just comes naturally from what we're feeling. We might have a friend on drugs, we might have this happen, something might be happening in society and we write songs about it. This album we had so much stuff that was going on politically, police department corruption, school shootings, environmental issues, and all these crazy things. The album showed we were actually taking a direction. Land of the Free was one of the first songs written. It was like, is this the land of the free? Do we live in the land of the free? It's what everyone thinks America to be, but how free are we in a society where the NRA is lining the pockets of politicians to keep guns legal and big businesses lining their pockets so they can continue to pollute the environment and chop down the forests, and on and on and on. How much freedom do we have? We don't have a lot. We have more than some countries and America is a very free country, but at the same time there's a lot of people behind the scenes pulling the strings and we don't really have as much control, as we like to think we do. When you got a police department that's shooting people, selling drugs, and robbing banks, and probably killed 2 Pac Shakur. How free are you when that sh*t's going on? In England they don't carry guns they carry nightsticks. So you tell me why our police force is driving around in armored cars. Something's not kosher there. We just got a lot of fuel from all the shit we've seen going on here and around the world and we're kind of pissed off. We love living in America it's one of the greatest countries on earth, but we hate the problems it has and we speak out against them. Maybe someday somebody becomes a part of the political puzzle that was a Pennywise fan, 98 Mute fan, or Deviates fan or whatever. If that person thinks like we do then we know the world will be a better place. If one of us became President there would be a lot of f*cking changes happening and they would be for the better. XROXX: We talked earlier about Pennywise being an influential band. Who influenced you guys as a band when you were coming up in the scene and what are you listening to now? FLETCHER: For me my main influences were Black Flag, Descendents, All, Circle Jerks, and southern California punk and East coast stuff like Minor Threat, SOA, Teen Idols, Dag Nasty and all that stuff. Minor Threat really blew me away with their first LP. Those were the bands that influenced me the most. We get compared to Bad Religion a lot and I think that's because we chose to do more melodic punk. Instead of screaming so much we XROXX: You spoke about hometown bands and friends of yours, which leads me to your relationship with the Descendents. What exactly is that? I know you guys went to high school together, can you elaborate on how you guys met? FLETCHER: Being a part of the punk rock scene in southern California during the early 80's, Black Flag practiced there in Hermosa Beach and played shows there and the Descendents played parties in Hermosa all the time. So you'd go to school with them and then go watch them play. Bill Stevenson comes into the bathroom and goes, "Are you goin' to the show tonight?" 'Yeah I'll be there.' "You better be!" Then he leaves and you're a scared little freshmen and this crazy guy comes in and starts yelling at you. It's like weird. You didn't go up to them and say, 'can I have your autograph?' It's more like 'Hey you want a beer?' We'd sit in the parking lot and drink beer with them. It wasn't like they were rock stars. You didn't want their autograph you just wanted to be part of it. That was awesome they were just great guys. I've been watching the Descendents for over 20 years. They're working on a new album right now and I think we'll be going on tour with them in Australia this March. They're just great guys all these bands, the Circle Jerks, Bad Religion, Black Flag. I never really knew anybody in Black Flag but hung out with them and talked to them and probably saw them play 50 shows. At that point they were too gnarly to approach, there was just too many people around. Everybody wanted to hang out with Black Flag they were a great band to see back in those days. It was just cool to be a part of that scene. XROXX: What can we expect from Pennywise in the near future in regards to recording, tours, anything big coming up for you guys? FLETCHER: We have some more touring to do on this album. We're going to Japan then Australia then East and West coast runs, probably a big LA show. We're also going to try to work on some new shit and hopefully get an album out around X-mas time. After six or seven albums, you kind of get into a cycle. You go out and do your thing and if people are still into it you keep doing it. So far luck's been pretty good we got a lot of fans back getting a lot of new fans. That's what it's about keeping your fans happy so we'll just keep doing it. XROXX: Final question, if the time comes when the guys in Pennywise go their separate ways or pursue different projects, whatever the case may be, what is the one thing you want most people to think of when they here the name Pennywise? Like if somebody brings up the name Pennywise in conversation what do you want to go trigger off in their heads in terms of messages? FLETCHER: I think the overall message is be all that you can be, join the army…just kidding. It's possible to do whatever you want to do in this life; you don't have to be a robot or head of cattle. You don't have to go to school where your parents tell you to play football if you don't want to. You can do whatever you want to do. The happiest times in your life are going to be when you follow your heart and being the person you want to be having a positive mental attitude. When you're faced with hardships or tough times you got to keep on going and fight your way through the system and try not to get engulfed by the powers to be. You got to be your own person no matter what it is you want to be whether it's gay, come out of the closet if you're gay, big deal. You want to be a doctor be a doctor, want to be a ballet dancer be a ballet dancer. You have to find out what makes you happy and pursue that and I think Pennywise gives people the strength to be themselves and to know that their thoughts and opinions and everything that they have counts for something. You're just not another number or another face you are you and you have to let that be know and express yourself. Hopefully people get that message and try to make the world a better place and make their lives better. And I think it's working because we get 1,000s of letters from kid's saying you gave me the power, strength and motivation to do this and that. It's beyond the band you could write a book or make a TV show about our message. The message doesn't even have to do with the music anymore; it's almost like a way of life like I'm not giving up. Ryan Bray Get all things Pennywise at Amazon.com:
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use the term a lot thinking they know everything. Selling-out, to me, is a really simple definition: when you change what you do or what you believe in for money. We make videos and Epitaph sends them to MTV, but they won't play them because they're like, "oh, this is too hardcore, no way we're going to show this is not fit for MTV." We made a video. We spent the money. It's just another form of expression. You do interviews because you want to be heard. You write a record because you want people to listen to it. You make a video so people see it and think it's cool and see the message behind it. When someone says, "you gotta write a ballad, these songs here are really great but we need like 2 or 3 ballads." And you go, "ok, we'll do that so we can make money." In some cases people say, "you need to put so me make up on and be on the cover of Tigerbeat Magazine." When you start doing that kind of stuff, that's selling- out. I don't think Rancid having a video on MTV is selling-out; it's just an art. If you don't want people to hear your music or see your band, what you do is record it and put it on a tape, light it on fire and burn it and do it again and again. You know, you're in a band, what do you do? Make a CD, sell 20, and say that's it? You want as many people to hear what you have to say as possible. I want 20 million people listening to Pennywise. I want 50 million people. I want the whole f*cking planet to have a Pennywise CD and understand where we're coming from and say hey maybe I can make the world a better place after they listen to our CD. Maybe it opens their eyes to something they weren't hip to before. I want people to know about Pennywise, but at the same time I'm not gonna compromise what I do or how I feel about doing it for money. We've been offered large sums of money to do things that we didn't think were right for the band and we said hey we're not gonna do it. I think you can see the bands that are willing to sell-out, I won't name them, but you can see them by their actions. They go from this, to all of a sudden doing this and this and this, you know. It's pretty obvious to see the ones who are all of a sudden like our tickets were $10; now we're really popular so now they're $25 and so are our t-shirts. They are motivated by the money and are trying to make more of it. There's nothing wrong with making a living playing music. There's a reasonable way of doing it. We make a comfortable living. We're not millionaires, but we have fun doing what we do and make better money than we would working at McDonald's or Jack In The Box, you know? And we still try to maintain cheap t-shirt and ticket prices, turn down offers. Someone was giving us shit for having our song in a movie. That's our song! I love movies I watch them all the f*cking time and I really like in a movie when a song comes in and it impacts the movie. It's art, who cares if our f*cking song's in the movie. We play our music as we want people to hear it. As long as you are doing stuff that makes you feel good and following your heart. Many bands go out and try to make as much money as possible that's their business not mine.
the environment and chop down the forests, and on and on and on. How much freedom do we have? We don't have a lot. We have more than some countries and America is a very free country, but at the same time there's a lot of people behind the scenes pulling the strings and we don't really have as much control, as we like to think we do. When you got a police dept. that's shooting people, selling drugs, and robbing banks, and probably killed 2 Pac Shakur. How free are you when that sh*t's going on? In England they don't carry guns they carry nightsticks. So you tell me why our police force is driving around in armored cars. Something's not kosher there. We just got a lot of fuel from all the shit we've seen going on here and around the world and we're kind of pissed off. We love living in America it's one of the greatest countries on earth, but we hate the problems it has and we speak out against them. Maybe someday somebody becomes a part of the political puzzle that was a Pennywise fan, 98 Mute fan, or Deviates fan or whatever. If that person thinks like we do then we know the world will be a better place. If one of us became President there would be a lot of f*cking changes happening and they would be for the better.
tried to sing a little more. Jimmy's got a similar voice to Greg Graffin and Bad Religion definitely played an influence lyrically. Jason was the kind of guy who got everybody on track writing lyrics in the early days was influenced by their positive mental attitude instead of screaming I hate the world, taking more of a thinking man's approach. I'm influenced by everything from movies to music to whatever. I think influences come from everything not just other bands. In this day and age I'm not really influenced by a lot a bands because I don't like a lot of bands. There hasn't been a whole lot of stuff going around that blows me away. I like System of a Down a lot about the only newer band that I like. Most of the shit that comes out these days is not really doing it for me. I really like Deaf by Stereo, Thrice, great band. I also like bands like 98 Mute and the Deviates, hometown bands that are good friends of ours and good kids. But for the most part it's me being around for so long because I spot a kid that wants to be in a band because it's cool to be in a band and he's got the uniform on and whatever. If that makes him happy that's great but it's not going to make me get up out of my chair and start going crazy. It has to be passionate and have real flavor to it.